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Neatness in Nature

Science
By Ray Murphy, Section News

Posted on Thu Jun 6th, 2002 at 17:17:46 EDT
According to the Old Testament, there's "Nothing new under the Sun" so presumably the answer to this question can be found in a library book somewhere; but does anyone know of a list of some of the incredibly neat and precise mathematical ways that Nature works and if they could have some relevance to astrology?

The academics amongst us probably take some of the mathematical rules (or Laws) of Nature for granted but can we find answers about astrology by looking at them - or searching for more of them to use?

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My interest in this type of thing stemmed from the day when I asked an astronomer/astrologer about the cyclic periods of planets (if that's the proper term). He told me that the period was AU x Square root of AU. I was impressed but wanted to know how precise the rule was, because I didn't believe it could be exact. I was even more impressed when he assured me that (as far as they know) the rule is exact - in fact I'm still fascinated by it years later.

Shortly afterwards I found out about the inverse square law in relation to the intensity of light at certain distances and noticed the obvious connection between the varying intensity of light at certain distances and the mean periods of planets cycles.

Naturally I was saying to myself things like: "How do they do that ... how do they!!"

"How could 'Nature' know about square roots of numbers and organise many things according to precise mathematical rules?"

"What else is there that no one told me about - and why isn't everyone getting excited about it?"

Gradually I came across more and more of these fascinating things and then assumed that there's probably lots more of them out there - some of which probably relate to astrology, but they haven't been noted or discovered yet, and so with this belief I began looking for very precise patterns and found a few but I'm still none the wiser about how they work, but I suspect the same applies to other rules and Laws of Nature. Do scientists know yet why Nature has chosen "neat rules"?

The reason I ask is: - if no one knows why those mathematical rules "work" in physics, then should we be spending a lot of time trying to figure out why they work for astrology? Or how astrology itself works.

I could easily be wrong about scientists' understanding of the mathematical rules of Nature because (as I've already indicated) I jumped on the bandwagon pretty late :-)>

Naturally some things in science that look magical - like the ability of photocopiers to reduce an image from (international paper size) A3 to A4 to A5 to A6 etc and still retain the same proportions is not exactly rocket science - it's simply caused by the fact that each of the paper sizes has a ratio of 1.4142 :1 (The square root of 2).

The same thing applies to the U.S. "B series" paper sizes which are out-of-whack with the rest of the world - still that same ratio. Incidentally why is that -- why does one country have so many things different - like driving on a different side of the road, placing months before days for dates, using imperial measurements, having different spelling of English words?

Anyway back to Nature and its rules. It seems that the square root of 2 is one of the main tools in Nature's tool-box as well as the cubed root. It seems that Nature is also "into" dividing things by 2 and repeating that infinitely (as with the decay of radioactive material).

What else is frequently used by Nature that could provide clues for astrologers?

Let's look at the period of precession of the equinoxes - presumably an average period. We say it's about 26,000 years for round figures and everyone is pretty happy with that - but when we know how Nature is frequently so precise and is in the habit of using "neat rules" why isn't anyone speculating about the mean period of precession as being connected to the square root of 2. After all - even when we allow for the slight wobbles of the earth (thus changing the length of the tropical + sidereal years very slightly) we still have a rule which is sooo close that it shouldn't be ignored.

If we take the tropical year of 365.2422 days and multiply by 100 and then divide by the square root of 2 we get 25,826.5237 (years).

And if we take the sidereal year of 365.2564 days and multiply by 100 and then divide by the square root of 2 we get 25, 827.5277 (years)

Now there's got to be a connection with SqRt2 there!

For anyone who hasn't looked at this stuff - what we are looking at here is a "big wheel" (365.2564) and a small wheel (365.2422) going the same distance for a precessional period. The "small wheel" must make ONE more revolution in order to eventually catch up with the big wheel - so that's why we have TWO periods - 25, 826.5237 and 25, 827.5277.

ie: 25, 826.5237 x 365.2564 = 9,433,303.071 sidereal days

and 25,827.5277 x 365.2422 = 9,433, 303.038 tropical days.

In other words ONE more (tropical) revolution of the earth.

These figures are a bit rough but when you see a miniscule alteration in the length of the tropical & sidereal days (which we will always have anyway) the above figures come out exact to about 10 decimal places (so far).

For the non-technical astrologers who are reading this. Here's a simple graphical way to see what I mean. Draw a square with a diagonal line from bottom left to top right. Now write on the diagonal line the number of tropical days x 100 (36, 524.22).

Then put that number in your calculator and get the square root of it (25,826.5237) and write it on top of the square.

Then do the same for the sidereal year using the figures 365.2565 x 100 and 25,827.5277.

See how precession is tied to the length of a tropical day and is "visible" in a simple square :-)>

The same sort of thing appears to be present in relation to the (mean) length of the the Moon's Sidereal month and Synodic month - 27.32166 and 29.53058 days respectively. If those cycles are meant to have a mean period over many millenia then it is very close indeed to another SqRT2 formula.

I now this looks more like astronomy than astrology, but there may be some advantage for astrologers in having a more precise mean period for precession and for the Moon's cyclic periods IF "parts of the whole cycles" are used in astrology / Nature (which I am certain is happening).

I still haven't figured out why the precession figures mentioned above rely on multiplying by 100.

Sure, 100 is neat, but Nature doesn't seem to operate much with actual numbers. Could it be caused by the base 10 numbering system that we use - ie: could it be really 10 squared (rather than 100)?

I've often wondered what the "formula" would look like in some other numbering system - and if the squaring of the maximum number (8, 12, 16 etc) of the numbering system fitted with it.

I did fool around with other numbering systems but got completely confused when I discovered I had no decimal places to work with :-)>

Getting back to my original request: Can anyone please put forward their opinions about which mathematical tools that "Nature" seems to use most frequently?

Ray Murphy

< WORLD CUP SOCCER 2002 (13 comments) | Part III: Varian in White-Horse (0 comments) >
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Neatness in Nature | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial, 0 pending)
Neatness: all in your mind ( 5.00 / 1 ) (#1)
by Axel Harvey on Sun Jun 9th, 2002 at 13:31:14 EDT
(User Info)

Shortly afterwards I found out about the inverse square law in relation to the intensity of light at certain distances and noticed the obvious connection between the varying intensity of light at certain distances and the mean periods of planets cycles.... "How could 'Nature' know about square roots of numbers and organise many things according to precise mathematical rules?"

Nature doesn't need to know, Nature does. Of course that's a type of knowledge, like the spider knowing how to spin a web. As for your other question, "How do they do it?", in the case of inverse-square laws (which apply both to light and to gravity, as you have already figured out) it's really simple. Imagine light emanating from a point behind a square hole in a sheet of aluminium foil. The resulting square beam of light fans out through the aperture to a sheet of paper 1 meter away from the point. The square of light on the paper has a certain area. Now move the sheet back to 2 meters, 3 m, 4 m. How much bigger than the original square of light are the new squares at these other distances? Keep in mind that the amount of light doesn't change, only the area on which it shines gets bigger; what does that say about the relationship between the distance to the source of light and the amount of light per area falling on that paper? If you are a gnat on that sheet of paper, what does it say about the amount of light you will perceive at each distance?

There is no way of knowing if Nature has chosen "neat rules." We can only ask ourselves, how would it make sense for such-and-such a thing to behave? - for example, light at a distance - build a model, and then see how it matches our perceptions. The neatness is all in our minds. In fact light doesn't quite behave the way we thought it should when the distances are cosmic; so we go back and think a little more sophisticatedly.

For an idea of a mathematical tool greatly favoured in Nature (that is to say, in the way human beings think about their perceptions of Nature), see Ron Knott's marvellous pages about Fibonacci numbers and especially his notes on how Fibonacci numbers are used by honeybees, pine trees, and molluscs.

As for the fancy numbers you have obtained for the Great Year, they lack an essential step. You are multiplying your first number (days per year) by the factor 70.71067811865475244... (100 divided by the square root of 2). The result comes out as years. Therefore the magic factor must be in units of years squared. Why?

Note that if instead of dividing 100 by the square root of 2 you had taken the famous number pi and multiplied it by 22.5, which is related to an important harmonic (if you believe that the number 360 has some kind of natural relationship to the circle), then you would have gotten a very similar result, namely 70.6858347... Does any of this make sense? Why?



unreasonable nature of mathematics ( 4.00 / 1 ) (#14)
by Bill Sheeran on Tue Oct 8th, 2002 at 22:52:01 EDT
(User Info)

from: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences by Eugene Wigner (joint Nobel Prize Winner, Quantum Physics, 1963) http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Wigner.html

THERE IS A story about two friends, who were classmates in high school, talking about their jobs. One of them became a statistician and was working on population trends. He showed a reprint to his former classmate. The reprint started, as usual, with the Gaussian distribution and the statistician explained to his former classmate the meaning of the symbols for the actual population, for the average population, and so on. His classmate was a bit incredulous and was not quite sure whether the statistician was pulling his leg. "How can you know that?" was his query. "And what is this symbol here?" "Oh," said the statistician, "this is pi." "What is that?" "The ratio of the circumference of the circle to its diameter." "Well, now you are pushing your joke too far," said the classmate, "surely the population has nothing to do with the circumference of the circle."

*

... the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious and that there is no rational explanation for it.

*

The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift which we neither understand nor deserve.


Bill



no mystery, really ( 3.00 / 1 ) (#13)
by Anonymous Hero on Tue Oct 8th, 2002 at 18:34:07 EDT

Actually, you have it almost backwards.  To slightly oversimplify, physicists and mathematicians observed the patterns of Nature, and gave simple names (like "square root") to the patterns they saw most frequently.

I.e., there's no mystery to why Nature follows physical and mathematical laws, because those laws were derived by observing the very Nature that is being described.



Neatness in Nature ( 3.00 / 1 ) (#6)
by LSmerillo (kajamanu@rdn.it) on Thu Jun 6th, 2002 at 21:01:21 EDT
(User Info)

maybe this interests someone:

http://the-light.com/misc/

feliciter,

Lorenzo Smerillo



test - ignore comment ( 1.00 / 1 ) (#9)
by johnnyc (johnnyc@urania-dott-info) on Fri Jun 7th, 2002 at 18:02:45 EDT
(User Info) http://www.livejournal.com/users/johnnycampbell

test...



Neatness in Nature | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial, 0 pending)
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